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Richard Steinfeld
Guest
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 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:52 am Post subject: gmail posters |
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We get quite a lot of crap here coming from people posting from gmail.
For example, the address-shifters hustling clothing from China. Why not
just plonk gmail altogether. I've already done this on a different NG,
and my experience is a whole lot calmer. I realize that some decent
posters use gmail too, so how would it be if they changed to a more
responsible service. I'd prefer getting posts via "real" ISPs. Failing
that, perhaps a different free webmail service. |
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Little Luke
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:52 am Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
On Jul 2, 9:14 pm, VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Richard Steinfeld" wrote in
news:pZadnXJ9C_MgifHVnZ2dnUVZ_tjinZ2d@posted.sonicnet>:
We get quite a lot of crap here coming from people posting from gmail.
Google Groups, not Gmail. Get it straight. There are probably a lot
more Gmail users than Google Groups posters. Why? Everyone that posts
using Google Groups has to get a Google account but not all Google
users are newsgroup participants. There are a LOT of posters that have
Gmail accounts but not all of them post through Google Groups. It
isn't Gmail that is the problem here. It is Google Group posters not
only for the spam that originates through Google's newsgroups interface
but also due to the inherent idiocy that is rampant amongst Google
Groupers.
For example, the address-shifters hustling clothing from China. Why
not just plonk gmail altogether.
And many of use visitors do just that. You'll need to get a better
NNTP client. Both Outlook Express and your Thunderbird choice are
incapable of filtering on the headers to filter out posts where the
message-ID header contains "googlegroups.com". Use a better
newsreader, or learn how to use NewsProxy (old, dead, but still doable)
with your lackluster choice for a newsreader. I used OE for many
years, then tried using NewsProxy, still wasn't enough, and so the
boobs and spammers forced me to use a better newsreader (which took
several trials of over a dozen choices lasting over a year - and still
none of them are quite what I like).
I've already done this on a different NG, and my experience is a whole
lot calmer.
Yeah, by eliminating those who CLAIM that their e-mail address is at
Gmail. Some of them might be using Gmail. Some just want to put
something in the From header because their NNTP provider won't let them
use a blank string or one that isn't a validly syntaxed e-mail address
string. Again, Gmail is not Google Groups. Get it straight. Yes, it
probably did get quieter. It would become even more quiet if you
blocked every post where From contained hotmail.com, yahoo.com,
bluebottle.com, and every other domain that provides some level of a
free e-mail service.
Your experience getting calmer indicates a problem on your end. I used
OE for years and simply bypassed those posts that I obviously didn't
want to waste the bandwidth to download and time to read them. It was
doable until I figured out something better, and figured out something
better again.
I realize that some decent posters use gmail too, so how would it be
if they changed to a more responsible service.
The trend to filter out Google Groupers was originally initiated (by
Blinky's crusade and those that agreed) due to the high occurring
inanity of that community of posters. Only by happenstance did it then
encompass the spate of spam that originates from Google Groups due to
the claimed circumvention of the CAPTCHA security page when signing up
for a Gmail account (which gets you access to Google Groups) or, more
likely, the social engineered sites that make users enter CAPTCHAs over
and over thinking it is used for that site but, in fact, it is having
the user enter CAPTCHAs at Google during a login process (i.e., the
users at a malicious site are doing the brainwork to break the CAPTCHAs
at Google). Filtering out Google Groupers is NOT the same as filtering
out Gmail users. But then you are using a weak NNTP client that cannot
filter on anything but a few select headers, none of which includes the
Message-ID header.
Go readhttp://improve-usenet.org/. Filtering out on "googlegroups.com"
in the Message-ID header already has the disadvantage of filtering out
some okay or good posts, but when they're standing amongst a mob of
machinegunners firing at you then you simply seal the door on all of
them (i.e., don't sit in the bad crowd and expect to not get similarly
judged as the rest of the crowd). Filtering on Gmail e-mail users is
getting a bit too exuberant; however, because of your choice for a
newsreader, that is what you are stuck with.
I'd prefer getting posts via "real" ISPs. Failing that, perhaps a
different free webmail service.
I couldn't tell where you were trying to go with those statements. ISP
is not the same as a newsgroups service. Webmail doesn't have anything
to do with Usenet.
Just be forewarned that once you get rid of Google Groupers then you'll
start focusing on the other type of posts that you also want to block.
Once the loud overwhelming noise has been eliminated, you then start
hearing the next annoying and loudest noise, and so on.
|
Why not get rid of you then all of us can breathe a sigh of relief. |
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Mike Easter
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
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Richard Steinfeld wrote:
| Quote: |
We get quite a lot of crap here coming from people posting from gmail.
|
Posting with a gmail address is a different population than posting via
googlegroups with a gmail address or posting via googlegroups without a
gmail address. Many who post via googlegroups post with a gmail From
because logging into any google account logs into googlegroups.
| Quote: |
For example, the address-shifters hustling clothing from China. Why not
just plonk gmail altogether. I've already done this on a different NG,
and my experience is a whole lot calmer.
|
Those who compare filtering googlegroups with filtering gmail feel that
the GG filter is the better filter, if it is tempered with whitelisting of
GGers who the filterer wishes to let pass.
| Quote: |
I realize that some decent
posters use gmail too, so how would it be if they changed to a more
responsible service.
|
Again I argue to not confuse gmail From with GG NPH nntp posting host.
| Quote: |
I'd prefer getting posts via "real" ISPs. \
|
Gmail is not an ISP; neither is hotmail, yahoo, or .invalid.
| Quote: |
Failing
that, perhaps a different free webmail service.
|
You are confusing gmail From with GG interface. Blinky's site^1 is noted
for addressing the issue.
http://improve-usenet.org/gmail.html While many Google Groups posters do
show gmail addresses, so do very, very many non-GG posters. [...] The
last time I did a count in a heavily-spammed newsgroup, only about perhaps
70% of the Google Groups posts showed gmail addresses.
--
Mike Easter |
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VanguardLH
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
"Richard Steinfeld" wrote in
<news:pZadnXJ9C_MgifHVnZ2dnUVZ_tjinZ2d@posted.sonicnet>:
| Quote: |
We get quite a lot of crap here coming from people posting from gmail.
|
Google Groups, not Gmail. Get it straight. There are probably a lot
more Gmail users than Google Groups posters. Why? Everyone that posts
using Google Groups has to get a Google account but not all Google
users are newsgroup participants. There are a LOT of posters that have
Gmail accounts but not all of them post through Google Groups. It
isn't Gmail that is the problem here. It is Google Group posters not
only for the spam that originates through Google's newsgroups interface
but also due to the inherent idiocy that is rampant amongst Google
Groupers.
| Quote: |
For example, the address-shifters hustling clothing from China. Why
not just plonk gmail altogether.
|
And many of use visitors do just that. You'll need to get a better
NNTP client. Both Outlook Express and your Thunderbird choice are
incapable of filtering on the headers to filter out posts where the
message-ID header contains "googlegroups.com". Use a better
newsreader, or learn how to use NewsProxy (old, dead, but still doable)
with your lackluster choice for a newsreader. I used OE for many
years, then tried using NewsProxy, still wasn't enough, and so the
boobs and spammers forced me to use a better newsreader (which took
several trials of over a dozen choices lasting over a year - and still
none of them are quite what I like).
| Quote: |
I've already done this on a different NG, and my experience is a whole
lot calmer.
|
Yeah, by eliminating those who CLAIM that their e-mail address is at
Gmail. Some of them might be using Gmail. Some just want to put
something in the From header because their NNTP provider won't let them
use a blank string or one that isn't a validly syntaxed e-mail address
string. Again, Gmail is not Google Groups. Get it straight. Yes, it
probably did get quieter. It would become even more quiet if you
blocked every post where From contained hotmail.com, yahoo.com,
bluebottle.com, and every other domain that provides some level of a
free e-mail service.
Your experience getting calmer indicates a problem on your end. I used
OE for years and simply bypassed those posts that I obviously didn't
want to waste the bandwidth to download and time to read them. It was
doable until I figured out something better, and figured out something
better again.
| Quote: |
I realize that some decent posters use gmail too, so how would it be
if they changed to a more responsible service.
|
The trend to filter out Google Groupers was originally initiated (by
Blinky's crusade and those that agreed) due to the high occurring
inanity of that community of posters. Only by happenstance did it then
encompass the spate of spam that originates from Google Groups due to
the claimed circumvention of the CAPTCHA security page when signing up
for a Gmail account (which gets you access to Google Groups) or, more
likely, the social engineered sites that make users enter CAPTCHAs over
and over thinking it is used for that site but, in fact, it is having
the user enter CAPTCHAs at Google during a login process (i.e., the
users at a malicious site are doing the brainwork to break the CAPTCHAs
at Google). Filtering out Google Groupers is NOT the same as filtering
out Gmail users. But then you are using a weak NNTP client that cannot
filter on anything but a few select headers, none of which includes the
Message-ID header.
Go read http://improve-usenet.org/. Filtering out on "googlegroups.com"
in the Message-ID header already has the disadvantage of filtering out
some okay or good posts, but when they're standing amongst a mob of
machinegunners firing at you then you simply seal the door on all of
them (i.e., don't sit in the bad crowd and expect to not get similarly
judged as the rest of the crowd). Filtering on Gmail e-mail users is
getting a bit too exuberant; however, because of your choice for a
newsreader, that is what you are stuck with.
| Quote: |
I'd prefer getting posts via "real" ISPs. Failing that, perhaps a
different free webmail service.
|
I couldn't tell where you were trying to go with those statements. ISP
is not the same as a newsgroups service. Webmail doesn't have anything
to do with Usenet.
Just be forewarned that once you get rid of Google Groupers then you'll
start focusing on the other type of posts that you also want to block.
Once the loud overwhelming noise has been eliminated, you then start
hearing the next annoying and loudest noise, and so on. |
|
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Little Luke
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
On Jul 3, 1:02 am, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
<anonym...@remailer.cyberiade.it> wrote:
| Quote: |
Little Luke <lukeridenh...@gmail.com> wrote:
FLUSH!
In case anyone isn't already aware, Luke here is just
another sock puppet of our troll pal "Ari".
Warm up your kill files and starve it to death.
|
Not getting paid is a sock puppet. |
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Little Luke
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
On Jul 3, 1:02 am, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
<anonym...@remailer.cyberiade.it> wrote:
| Quote: |
Little Luke <lukeridenh...@gmail.com> wrote:
FLUSH!
In case anyone isn't already aware, Luke here is just
another sock puppet of our troll pal "Ari".
Warm up your kill files and starve it to death.
|
Look here you motherfucker, you come at me with kill in anything, I
will rip your ass out and stuff it down your GODDAMNED throat. Did I
make myself clear? |
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Mike Easter
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
<something negative about another poster using terms like troll and
sockpuppet and posting from an anonmizing remailer>
Posting negative ad hominem things about other posters or posting from
anonymous remailers - either or both are likely to get you filtered by
some.
--
Mike Easter |
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Cyberiade.it Anonymous Re
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
Little Luke <lukeridenhour@gmail.com> wrote:
<FLUSH!>
In case anyone isn't already aware, Luke here is just
another sock puppet of our troll pal "Ari".
Warm up your kill files and starve it to death. |
|
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VanguardLH
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
| Quote: |
Little Luke <lukeridenhour@gmail.com> wrote:
FLUSH!
In case anyone isn't already aware, Luke here is just
another sock puppet of our troll pal "Ari".
Warm up your kill files and starve it to death.
|
Luke, aka Ari, might be hiding by nymshifting (but you provide no proof
of such). You are hiding behind dizum. The difference is ... um ...
you two use a different mechanism but you're still both hiding. Ask who
is hiding and both of you point at each other.
Look, he's hiding.
Oh yeah? He's hiding, too. See, see!
Am not!
Am, too!!
A case of the pot calling the kettle ... another pot. |
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Ron May
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:52:41 -0700, Richard Steinfeld
<rgsteinBUTREMOVETHIS@sonicANDTHISTOO.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
We get quite a lot of crap here coming from people posting from gmail.
For example, the address-shifters hustling clothing from China. Why not
just plonk gmail altogether. I've already done this on a different NG,
and my experience is a whole lot calmer. I realize that some decent
posters use gmail too, so how would it be if they changed to a more
responsible service. I'd prefer getting posts via "real" ISPs. Failing
that, perhaps a different free webmail service.
|
As others have pointed out, it's not the "@gmail.com" From: address
that's the problem. It's the Nessage-ID line in the header that ends
with "googlegroups.com".
John Corliss occasionally posts an article on how to deal with the
issue, most recently in a thread started 5/14/08:
http://tinyurl.com/6eqjlc
Things aren't always what they seem. By way of example, examining my
header will show my From: address is a Hotmail address. I posted this
through a server named news.sunsite.dk which is currently operated by
Dotsrc.org. I accessed that news server from IP 76.182.210.141, which
if you look up will resolve back to RoadRunner, which is operated by
Time Warner Cable. My Message-ID, however, ends in "4ax.com" which is
the default setting for my $ware newsreader, Forte Agent.
Why does my From: address show Hotmail? For no other reason than that
is the address I typed in when I set up the persona I wanted to use
for posting to newsgroups, I've used that address for years for
Usenet purposes and it is a real address I choose to make available to
the general public. Hotmail played absolutely no role in this message
showing up here beyond that simple choice of mine. I could have used
any number of real (or forged or munged) email addressed if I wanted
to. In much the same way, someone could decide to use a Gmail address
for the same reason, and it would actually make better sense than a
Hotmail address since Gmail's spam filters are far superior.
Good luck. If you need help sorting things out, just post back here
with NewsProxy or NFilter in the subject line and someone will help
you.
--
Ron M.
(I filter Googlespam)
alt.comp.freeware information pages:
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Index.php |
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Steve Terry
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
"Richard Steinfeld" <rgsteinBUTREMOVETHIS@sonicANDTHISTOO.net> wrote in
message news:pZadnXJ9C_MgifHVnZ2dnUVZ_tjinZ2d@posted.sonicnet...
| Quote: |
We get quite a lot of crap here coming from people posting from gmail. For
example, the address-shifters hustling clothing from China. Why not just
plonk gmail altogether. I've already done this on a different NG, and my
experience is a whole lot calmer. I realize that some decent posters use
gmail too, so how would it be if they changed to a more responsible
service. I'd prefer getting posts via "real" ISPs. Failing that, perhaps a
different free webmail service.
Before Gmail they used hotmail, before hotmail they used mail&news, |
if you ban one mail server they'll just find another
Steve Terry |
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Little Luke
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
On Jul 3, 12:53 am, "Mike Easter" <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: |
Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
something negative about another poster using terms like troll and
sockpuppet and posting from an anonmizing remailer
Posting negative ad hominem things about other posters or posting from
anonymous remailers - either or both are likely to get you filtered by
some.
--
Mike Easter
|
Thank you Mike Easter I looked up anonymous remailers. This guy
doesn't want me to know who he is, good thing, i have taken clowns
like this and reached through their butt and pulled their dick inside
out. You hearing me clown? Come out clown and show your clown face,
give me an address, let's meet and kiss. You have my address Clown
come and get some of me clown. |
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Little Luke
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
On Jul 3, 1:13 am, VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
| Quote: |
Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
Little Luke <lukeridenh...@gmail.com> wrote:
FLUSH!
In case anyone isn't already aware, Luke here is just
another sock puppet of our troll pal "Ari".
Warm up your kill files and starve it to death.
Luke, aka Ari, might be hiding by nymshifting (but you provide no proof
of such). You are hiding behind dizum. The difference is ... um ...
you two use a different mechanism but you're still both hiding. Ask who
is hiding and both of you point at each other.
Look, he's hiding.
Oh yeah? He's hiding, too. See, see!
Am not!
Am, too!!
A case of the pot calling the kettle ... another pot.
|
Who am I hiding from? You got me don't you? Nomen has my computer
address, follow it or are you THE CLOWN Cyberaide too? Come see me,
let me showq you what a tour in the Middle East will teach you. |
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John Corliss
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
Ron May wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:52:41 -0700, Richard Steinfeld
rgsteinBUTREMOVETHIS@sonicANDTHISTOO.net> wrote:
We get quite a lot of crap here coming from people posting from gmail.
For example, the address-shifters hustling clothing from China. Why not
just plonk gmail altogether. I've already done this on a different NG,
and my experience is a whole lot calmer. I realize that some decent
posters use gmail too, so how would it be if they changed to a more
responsible service. I'd prefer getting posts via "real" ISPs. Failing
that, perhaps a different free webmail service.
As others have pointed out, it's not the "@gmail.com" From: address
that's the problem. It's the Nessage-ID line in the header that ends
with "googlegroups.com".
John Corliss occasionally posts an article on how to deal with the
issue, most recently in a thread started 5/14/08:
http://tinyurl.com/6eqjlc
Things aren't always what they seem. By way of example, examining my
header will show my From: address is a Hotmail address. I posted this
through a server named news.sunsite.dk which is currently operated by
Dotsrc.org. I accessed that news server from IP 76.182.210.141, which
if you look up will resolve back to RoadRunner, which is operated by
Time Warner Cable. My Message-ID, however, ends in "4ax.com" which is
the default setting for my $ware newsreader, Forte Agent.
Why does my From: address show Hotmail? For no other reason than that
is the address I typed in when I set up the persona I wanted to use
for posting to newsgroups, I've used that address for years for
Usenet purposes and it is a real address I choose to make available to
the general public. Hotmail played absolutely no role in this message
showing up here beyond that simple choice of mine. I could have used
any number of real (or forged or munged) email addressed if I wanted
to. In much the same way, someone could decide to use a Gmail address
for the same reason, and it would actually make better sense than a
Hotmail address since Gmail's spam filters are far superior.
Good luck. If you need help sorting things out, just post back here
with NewsProxy or NFilter in the subject line and someone will help
you.
|
Ron, you make a good point in that it's easy to set up a free account
with, say, Yahoo or the like for actually providing a way to communicate
via email.
I've made my Yahoo email address public here many times, but am still
nervous about using it constantly in my headers.
--
John Corliss BS206. I use nFilter to block all crossposts and all Google
Groups posts because of Googlespam. No ad, cd, commercial, cripple,
demo, dotnet, nag, share, spy, time-limited, trial or web wares OR warez
for me, please. |
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Dave U. Random
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: gmail posters |
|
|
Mike Easter wrote:
| Quote: |
Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
something negative about another poster using terms like troll and
sockpuppet and posting from an anonmizing remailer
Posting negative ad hominem things about other posters or posting from
anonymous remailers - either or both are likely to get you filtered by
some.
|
Whatcha waitin' for mouth? Don't stand there puffin' your
chest out looking all pathetic and shit. Just do it.
|
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